So I've been looking back at some comments for SE:AMS, and I've noticed a certain complaint/fear that a lot of people have voiced over the course of the series, especially since the second SEquel prototype chapter.
And that complaint/fear is the idea of Hinata having any sort of sexual interactions with a male character other than Naruto. This complaint has always bothered me a lot ever since it was first voice who knows when, and it's one that is hardly a fair one to make.
SE:AMS is a series all about the joys of sex, and sexual understanding, and one where Naruto has had sex not only with Hinata, but also Naruko and Anko, so I have to ask a serious, important question: What gives him a free pass?!
For those of you who didn't know, there was once a different ending to SE:AMS in which Yahiko becomes the fourth member of Team Anko, and he and Hinata have some time together while Anko gets time with Naruto.
Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was pissed about Hinata being with someone other than Naruto, and it's between those complaints, and the fact that I admittedly hadn't thought out such an ending all that well in the first place that it was changed to the ending you now see on FF.
And from what several of the comments on the second Prototype SEquel imply, a mass majority of the votes for the Advanced Sex ed story concept were made specifically to avoid Hinata having any sort of sexual activity with any students (male or otherwise) in her class. Well, hate to say it, but I got news for you all: It's gonna happen no matter what!
When Anko's Advanced class starts up, she and Naruto are going to be her assistants, meaning both of them are going to be stepping outside their comfort zones in her class. This ALSO means that anyone reading is going to have to step outside their comfort zones a little bit! (and I'm not just talking about the idea of Hinata having sex with other males) Even if I do decide on a different premise for the SEquel from the ones I've previously posted, Hinata's probably going to have sex with one or two other males besides Naruto at some point or another.
I understand that Naruko and Anko have had a personal relationship with Naruto even before the boy graduated his virginity, whereas Hinata never made any sort of bonding with any male characters, but regardless, it just feels incredibly petty and unfair to say that Naruto can fuck whatever girl he wants, but Hinata doesn't have the same liberty with the boys. I don't know how else to say it, but as much as you don't like that idea, it's gonna happen eventually! Everyone seems to understand that, while Naruto fucked Naruko, he wasn't cheating on Hinata, and he reserves his love for her, but when even the idea of Hinata being around another male comes up, why is that suddenly sick, and wrong, and completely cheating on Naruto?!
Something I've briefly tried to touch on with SE:AMS, and plan to further indulge upon in the SEquel, is expose some of the idiotic double standards society has, particularly when it comes to sexuality. Among the double standards I want to touch on included: female breasts being branded as sexual organs when they're not, and how sex between two girls is awesome but sex between two boys is sick and wrong, but one of particular note that's bugged me the most is how guys who bang a lot of girls are 'players', 'studs' or otherwise 'awesome,' while girls who bang a lot of guys are 'sluts', 'whores', or 'gross individuals.' Or hell, guys who're perverts are... well, just perverts, while girls who are perverts are 'whores.'
Okay, to put things in perspective, here's a brief anecdote about something that happened with me and my dad: I was about... 15 or so, and I said something about some flirty chick in some movie/tv show being a bit of a whore, to which my dad responded 'why?'. I replied (feebly) that it was because of her perverted attitude.
Dad: So, she's a whore because she likes sex?
Me: Uh... yeah?
Dad: Do you like sex?
Me: Uh... yeah.
Dad: So you're a whore too! :P
Anyway, so while I understand some of the readers' reasoning why Hinata doing it with boys besides Naruto is undesirable, I hope that they also understand my reasoning, being that it's unfair to say Naruto can do any girl he wants, but Hinata's forbidden from having the same liberty with boys... actually, that brings up something else I hadn't quite thought of; why is Hinata bedding with boys a bad thing, but bedding with other girls is a-okay? Seriously, Hinata's had a few lesbian experiences in SE:AMS, with Yuko, Onnasuki, and Anko (and I think Naruko at one point or another), and nobody had a problem with it at all! In fact, I've known a few people who rather enjoyed the idea. But when even just the thought of her being with a boy (other than Naruto of course) crops up, it's such a forbidden and immoral thing.... Wut???? I can get if it was just Anko she'd brushed with, since they have a personal relationship, but she got a free pass with Yuko and Onna too. So... even just thinking about her being with any given male character is so bad... why, exactly? It just strikes me as a double standard that I could do without.
well when you put it like that amigo,I figure you're right,given I was one of those complainers,I'll retract that complaint,and hey,long as you don't hae her with certain men,know what I mean?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I wasn't so keen on Naruto having sex with other girls either, but that was the monogamous in me thinking. Like you said, part of the issue was that Hinata didn't have a personal relationship with any other male characters, unlike Naruto with Anko and Naruko. If you showed her having a comfortable relationship with other male characters (preferably outside her family) before she engages in sex that would probably deter some complaints.
ReplyDeleteAnd like I said, I can understand the whole personal relationship thing, but it's more like the idea alone that gets some people in a twist. Just check out the reviews for SE Side Story 10, and I'm sure you might find one or two that might tell you exactly what I'm talking about.... anyway, the main idea here is that, despite being a couple, Anko's kinda rubbed off on Hinata and Naruto, so they can very easily have sexual activities with somebody else, yet reserve their love for one another, because they have a special understanding between them.
DeleteYeah, I'm also not too keen on Naruto and Hinata doing it outside of their little group. I'd give Anko a pass because of the relationship given to that. I think the main reason is that so many give Hinata's yuri stuff a pass is because so many guys just like yuri. Personally I didn't give a pass to the Onna and Yuko stuff though. I'd need to re-read some scenes to refresh my memory. I only remember the Yuko one. If you want to talk about double standards, let's touch on Onna. Sometimes she comes across as a straight up rapist. The story acts like she gets a pass because she's a comedic lesbian. If she was a male character and did that to Sakura, she would have held a little bit more then just a drudge, insulting "him".
ReplyDeleteYou know, I'd considered the fact that Hinata's Yuri activity gets a free pass because of people liking Yuri, but.... *sigh* I was hoping that there was some kind of reasoning slightly less petty :/
DeleteI really do try to give Onna less of a 'rapist' vibe and more of a comical perv vibe, but... obviously I just suck that way. Regardless, you do make an excellent point. I mean, would any man get away with some of the shit that Naruko, or especially Anko, have pulled?
Well, I won't lie, the idea of Hinata doing it with someone else than Naruto does bug me, but not as much as Hinete cheating on Naruto. Difference? When it's cheating, Naruto does not agree. If he agrees, well he's OK with it so they can do whatever they want. Though, about all the sex outside of the couple on Naruto's side, the fact that some of it happened without Hinata's knowledge or consent is a bit of a problem in my eyes.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, I only ask for Hinata to keep her heart where it is now (with Naruto) and to NOT sleep with Sasuke, and preferably not Kiba (can't explain that one). So, basically, I'm humbly asking you to add something to the NaruHina lemons that show the chemistery and love between them, as opposed to the 'feel-good' sex they can have elsewhere.
And honestly, I had the same interrogation about society's double standards, and I reached this conclusion: I'm not into man-on-man sex, thus I won't watch or read it. Woman-on-woman sex is hot in my opinion, thus I watch or read it. Man-on-woman and woman-on-man sex is hot, thus I watch it and read it. And I don't give a fuck about what way the people around me swing, not my damn problem.
Thing is though, as I've said, there's some serious BS double standard ideas, and that also goes for what's considered 'cheating' when it comes to pairings; apparently, just the very idea of Hinata showing any kind of interest in another boy other than Naruto is cheating, though Naruto gets plenty of leeway, as long as it means that he still maintains a loving for Hinata. -__-
DeleteOh, believe me, I have NO interest in even hinting at SasuHina! That aside, I do indeed plan to show their love and chemistry, but it's also prudent to note that they also have an understanding with each other when it comes to 'feel-good' sex, which you have no one but Anko to blame for :P
I like the way you think, however, it is important to point out that I will, at some point in the SEquel, need to touch on man-on-man sexuality. Mainly, because I've done more than just plenty of woman-on-woman, and so to ignore the flipside just because it's not exactly my cup of tea is really unfair.
If Naruto is OK with Hinata having feel-good sex with other guys, then it's their problem how they manage their couple. I just think they'd agree on protection during those times, you know, to make sure the kids are Naruto's.
DeleteAnd yeah, I guess it's unfair to skip male gay time after all the yuri you wrote, but I'm still gonna skip those lemons.
I'll be blunt and say I've read a story or two where Hinata has sex with other guys but it was a 'swingers' kinda thing where all parties knew what was involved and agreed. I think one of the biggest reasons is that people love NaruHina as a pairing and the very idea that Hinata who we know from the manga has romantic feelings for no one but Naruto and tends to give off a very 'pure' feeling, makes the idea that she can have sex so casually with another male other than Naruto more than a little irksome to downright a part of them screaming "NO" and cussing up a storm inside. I'll give it a read but it has to be done in a way that shows that she ONLY cares for Naruto romantically as you've stated that he does for her..and I kinda gotta agree with Lord Farsight on the Sasuke thing. I'm not his biggest fan and I've seen FAR too many SasuHina fics where he either A) gets Hinata to cheat on Naruto and steals her from him or B) uses some bullshit way to just take her from Naruto and she trots along like a fangirl. Kiba is an Iffy one for me as he seems to see her like a sister that needs protecting and less of the 'Horndog" that fics make him out to be but if done tastefully it could be okay to do in this fic.
ReplyDeleteI totally get where you're coming from, but I'm not one to follow fanfiction 'tradition' just for the sake of tradition; First, Sasuke has always shown little, if any romantic (let alone sexual) interest at all, so there's no way he would take interest in any girls, much less Hinata, enough to steal them from their boyfriends. Besides, I hate SasuHina just as much as you, so you can be sure as hell I'm not going to even think about it.
DeleteWell then you got me to at least give it a read just to see if it's gonna be as good as the first half of your story ^_^, as long as NaruHina is the main romance of the thing I can deal with quite a bit on the side. As long as SasuHina stays far away..which I STILL wanna know what idiot thought that it was a good idea to put those two together romantically, Sasuke would produce asexually if he could I bet.
DeleteI'm going to have to agree with you on this. It is a bit off-putting to see Hinata off with others from a character perspective (which admittedly may be skewed from previous fics), but so long as it's done well, I don't mind it. I don't remember having any issue w/ the original ending to SE:AMS (though I've never been a very vocal fan, this being my first interaction w/ an author, great work overall btw!), & her having the freedom is fine if the romantic connection is established. It's down to execution, & I trust you. Whether she does or doesn't having the option be present is huge! Maybe easing into it, having someone join once or twice first before she's off on her own, would go a long way in my opinion! I can't tell you how to write, but as for Hinata going off like Naruto, feel free! As long as they both agree and are communicating openly (few to no secrets, they know who the other has been w/, etc.), then it's like you said, no problem! In the end, you'll enjoy the result, & your fans will appreciate it! :D
ReplyDeleteI love the idea of Naruto and Hinata being in love but still free with their sexuality. Double standards can gtfo of society. It honestly made my week to hear that this series was going to be continued, as Sex Ed, Anko Mitarashi Style, is one of my top five favorite fics and I have read thousands. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDelete^_^ I'm glad to hear that you're so excited to see what I might have in store, but don't get TOO excited ^^; regrettably, I can't make any promises when this continuation will be out (and if I do give you definitive information before it's finished and posted, it's wrong! :P).
DeleteTBH, I feel your best course of action for having Hinata get with other guys besides Naruto would be strictly with other OCs, like you had originally planned with Yahiko. However, there are problems with the original SE:AMS that make even this difficult for me to swallow. I would be more comfortable with this if you did not go with the Advanced class, and instead skipped to Shippūden and had Hinata and Naruto teach Anko's old class together, where she could then be to some of her students what Anko was to Naruto. Yes, my vote to have the Shippūden class happen instead of the Advanced class taking place in pre-timeskip was partially due to the issue of either of our favorite couple having to continue doing it with other people, but considering how the original story was written, this is something you may have to ease some of your readers into. Having Anko's classroom be rebooted NaruHina-style in the SEquel would make it considerably easier on the readers who have this issue, if you happen to care about it that much, as in said SEquel idea she would have a duty to her students to bring them out of their shells and prepare them for the shinobi life. Plus she would be far more comfortable with doing so at that point.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I wasn't a fan of Naruto having to receive sexual favors from anyone besides Hinata until the Virginity Rituals finally happened. Anko sorta gets a pass because she's her sensei and genuinely cared for Naruto, but the first boobjob in the classroom in front of all the other males felt like rape to me. It's also arguable that at least some of the times Naruko gave her lil' bro a blowjob, it could be considered rape. This is an unpopular stance given that, as you pointed out, many readers give Naruto the pass but not Hinata, but I DON'T give Naruto the pass as much as others might. Hinata, on the other hand, was undeniably raped by Onnasuki and Yuko. No question about it; EVERY lesbian interaction between Hinata and anyone besides Anko from what I saw was one that was forced on Hinata, without even asking her if she wanted it (which it was clear that she didn't). No effort at all was made on the other party's behalf to ease her into it. I am absolutely certain that if Hiashi heard about those encounters, Onnasuki and Yuko would be in prison. Well, Yuko would, at least. Hiashi might have killed Onnasuki in blind anger instead of letting the Hokage handle it.
If the Advanced Sex Ed course happens instead, again, I reiterate the necessity of only using OCs for Hinata's other required flings (Yahiko would likely be the best start if you're not going to create a new OC just for this end). I'm glad you agree that SasuHina is an abomination, perhaps the only non-incestuous het pairing in the fandom that can be considered an abomination, but I just don't see Hinata being able to have casual sex with any of the other males in the Rookie 9. At all. Shino would be the "easiest" because of the Aburame's upbringing if you did go that route anyway. But I would probably drop the Advanced course instantly if she did it with Kiba. I can't really explain it either, but KibaHina...just doesn't work. Kiba feels more like a surrogate brother than a possible love interest, not to mention canonically he's the biggest NaruHina supporter among living Naruto characters.
For the record, I never saw the original ending because I didn't join FF until about a year after SE:AMS ended...but I probably would not have had too many problems with it as long as Yahiko was like Anko and NOT like Onnasuki and Yuko. If you still have the original ending saved and want me to see it, my SN on FF is SilentSambo88.
I didn't even know about the aborted original ending....will you ever post it here or on another site like AFF?
ReplyDeleteThank you for being willing to buck tradition. If Naruto can be a pussy-hound, then why can't Hinata be the same and going both ways? Speaking of which, will Naruto do swing both ways also and if does will he use Orioke form? Any ways it's like it's been said many times, Sex may be the ultimate expression of love, be it is not the definition of it.
ReplyDeleteI've thought about having Naruto swing both ways at a few points, but honestly, at this point, it would just feel forced (At least to me, anyway). But there's nothing wrong with being full-on straight, right?
DeleteIn the coming sequel series, though, there WILL be some guy-on-guy, and male bisexuality, so... yeah XD.
i love this idea but i really want to know, when can we expect to hear from you? be it a progress update like "hey guys been working on ideas for chapter _ not going too good see you next month" or be it actual news about release dates. but no matter what i think it would help us all to know what is going on with the SEquel
ReplyDeleteGenerally speaking, yeah, the double standard is bullshit. But I can understand it. At its crudest form, the sentiment behind it is a lock-and-key analogy: a key that can open any lock is considered an awesome key, but a lock that opens to any key is just a shitty lock. Not the BEST way of putting it, but the general idea usually works for most people.
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